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 Post subject: Re: I'm out.
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 10:38 am 
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kai-ying wrote:
As I said in my original post, I can understand wanting to concentrate on one character normally. In this game I don't get it, at all.

I'll try to explain it from my point of view. I've never been an altoholic, I like to focus on 1 toon and make it as good as possible, using alts only to support that main toon. Indeed this is the first MMO where I can see having alts for other reasons but there is another problem with that in this game.

I did a lot of grouped leveling in various ways but this game is not made for grouped leveling, it sucks but that's how it is.

The main problem is that unless you always group with the same people (very hard to organize) you will always be out of sync with each other. So you might have a lvl 35 toon and I might have a lvl 32 toon. Close enough right? Wrong, you will probably be on another planet and grouping with me will be harmful for your progress since you might need to help me on my planet which you've already done and only the heroics are repeatable. So you help me for a few hours and we get back into sync. Then the next day you want to level him again but I'm not around so you are back to square one.

I did this for a while with BB and zum, our alts were in sync and we only played them when we were all online. That was a lot of fun but the game does everything to make it harder then it should be.

It's just too much hassle to make it worthwhile, so that leaves solo leveling which is not fun to me.

Guild Wars 2 is a good example of a grouped leveling system that does seem to get it right. They have an actual level and an effective level. Whenever you do an event (everything is repeatable) below your actual level your effective level will drop to that of the event. The thing is, it's completely automatic and transparent, you will never notice it. In fact, I didn't know it even existed until I read about it after the beta event. Since it's automatic there is no need to mentor someone or having to reshuffle your skills and bars because skills are not tied to a level in GW2. So every content in the game will always stay challenging, it's the case for doing a level 8 event at level 70 but also if you are doing a level 8 event at level 10, it will be just as challenging. Still getting XP rewards useful to your actual level and you are never able to faceroll stuff. A system like this is almost impossible in SWTOR or most MMO games for that matter though since everything is tied to levels.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm out.
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 11:55 am 
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That is one of the (many) things I didnt like about SWTOR.
It really is designed as a singleplayer game with no thought to grouping.

As an example I was leveling with Ment a fair bit in the first few weeks of release. Even though sometimes we were the same level, we could be hours apart in the content. He might have still even been on the previous planet for example.
Even just TWO HOURS in difference of leveling means its a right pita to group up.

We would have two options:
1. the person ahead repeats all the content he has already done, but gets no xp or rewards (because most xp is tied to quests and not mobs).
2. Sit out for 2 hours and do something else.

Neither option is good. Especially as this process probably has to be repeated every day. Its just not a system designed with grouping in mind.
Its a reason I dont like themeparks at all tbh. They all seem to be solo orientated.

Maybe GW2 will be better in this area. Will have to see.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm out.
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 1:44 pm 
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Chisel wrote:
So what if some gear goes to companions, or offspecs, if you're only thinking of it in terms of getting gear, then you're looking at it the wrong way, and rather selfishly, in my opinion. It's nice to get new gear sure, but personally I'm just happy to group up and help others out, even knowing it'll possibly cost me more in repair costs and buffs than I'll get out of it.


Really, you think this is about gear and I'm being selfish? Really? I've been on pretty much every single raid we've done, I haven't needed gear for months. I've been doing all these raids to get other people gear. Let's keep the discussion sensible.

The problem with not alting in my opinion is twofold:
* You're hogging a loot slot. We can't put out a raid with 8 troopers. Well we can, but it'd be retarded and guaranteed the loot tables will be fucked.
* I've seen plenty of talk from people of liking the challenge and wanting to improve their skills. How does that apply when we utterly faceroll normal Ops because we're taking groups of 1 or 2 new 50's and padding it out with fully Rakata geared folks. It goes both ways, the others might want a challenge in these Normal modes while they learn their newly dinged 50's strengths and weaknesses. You're denying them that by rigidly only bringing the same toon, and also with the numbers we have chances are we need your body (in the most non-sexual terms) else the raid won't happen.

I'm saying "you" here but for a lot of this I'm not talking specifically about you Chis.

Also serious question to the people who don't roll alts, not a troll. What on earth made you think that this game leant itself to an indepth single toon progression? From really really early on they made it clear that story was the be-all-and-end-all of this game, and that alt'ing was a cornerstone of their design (we even bitched about it on here). I don't understand the reasoning behind saying I'm only going to play 1 out of the 8 storylines when storylines are pretty much all that has ever been promised for TOR.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm out.
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 3:15 pm 
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kai-ying wrote:
What on earth made you think that this game leant itself to an indepth single toon progression?

Check my /played time on my main toon and then let's talk again :P If you do enjoy every aspect of it like PvP, crafting, working the market and stuff like that then there is plenty to do.

There are still things I haven't touched. It might not be your cup of tea but it's definitely a viable play style.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm out.
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 9:38 pm 
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kai-ying wrote:
Really, you think this is about gear and I'm being selfish? Really? I've been on pretty much every single raid we've done, I haven't needed gear for months. I've been doing all these raids to get other people gear. Let's keep the discussion sensible.


That's not how it came across after Sunday's raid, and in your post, so apologies if I've misread, it just sounded like you were blaming folk for your alt not getting gear because some of us couldn't (as it was in my case) do EV normal, or just preferred to do KP when given the choice. We were discussing which raid to do for a while, but there was no mention that I heard of your alt then, only after we'd finished. You also showed up on K'ai, suggesting you were up for tanking. We could have tried KP on normal with one tank (we've done up to the Fabricator with Zumbee tanking solo before, and we could have swapped out for the Fabricator maybe?), or I could have dropped and you could have run EV normal (I was a reserve after all), but it wasn't mentioned.

kai-ying wrote:
* You're hogging a loot slot. We can't put out a raid with 8 troopers. Well we can, but it'd be retarded and guaranteed the loot tables will be fucked.
* I've seen plenty of talk from people of liking the challenge and wanting to improve their skills. How does that apply when we utterly faceroll normal Ops because we're taking groups of 1 or 2 new 50's and padding it out with fully Rakata geared folks. It goes both ways, the others might want a challenge in these Normal modes while they learn their newly dinged 50's strengths and weaknesses. You're denying them that by rigidly only bringing the same toon, and also with the numbers we have chances are we need your body (in the most non-sexual terms) else the raid won't happen.


That's just a problem with the size of our guild, and our reluctance to call on outsiders or recruit (have we actually recruited anyone other than the few people I've brought in from other games?), not the individuals surely. If we have the same 10 or so people with 2 alts it's only delaying the same problem, while also restricting ourselves to the lower ops for twice as long.

kai-ying wrote:
Also serious question to the people who don't roll alts, not a troll. What on earth made you think that this game leant itself to an indepth single toon progression? From really really early on they made it clear that story was the be-all-and-end-all of this game, and that alt'ing was a cornerstone of their design (we even bitched about it on here). I don't understand the reasoning behind saying I'm only going to play 1 out of the 8 storylines when storylines are pretty much all that has ever been promised for TOR.


I'd love to play all 4 republic storylines, if I didn't have to repeat the same filler content, space missions, etc. 4 times as well, and I could just follow the story, and could properly group with people on the way up as well. 1 to 50 on Trooper was a mostly solitary experience due to the reasons Grim has already mentioned, and I really don't fancy the idea of dragging my ass round the same filler missions on Taris (or other equally annoying planets) on my own again, it's not what I pay an MMO sub for, I might as well set up a solo server with 10x experience gain and forget the multiplayer part altogether.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm out.
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 12:36 am 
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Isnt supposed Legacy updates going to allow you to skip filler quests and focus on Planetary/Class quests so you dont even up repeating. If I come back at some point Id defiantly be spurred on by that

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 Post subject: Re: I'm out.
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 7:14 am 
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In 1.3 there are legacy things you can buy to increase XP from Space, PvP or Flashpoints, but nothing for storyline.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm out.
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:54 pm 
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please dont give up kai your a staple member of the guild... how about we try different things? like one night an alt run other night the new op, at least we will be doing different things other than hard modes every weekend.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm out.
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 3:01 pm 
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Location: Watching lozanges of vortisticial light form beautifull butterfly patterns... I'M FREE!!!
actually..... where IS everybody? There's only been 2 or 3 on recently.....

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 Post subject: Re: I'm out.
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 3:10 pm 
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i log on but primarily to craft and run the corellia dailies to make money to craft more :P

I'e never been interested in FP's and my PvP has dropped off a lot, primarily put off by the valor grind (not even tried the new warzone).

So the only real thing i do is grind alts or do ops. I am logging onto alts now and then at the weekends and taking part in ops but during the week there isn't much for me to do.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm out.
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:23 pm 
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I think we have all gone raid crazy :D in SWG where we could do something silly or togehter everything on this game is geared to end game raids :(
sad to see everyone leaving one by one...
first Arth, then Ment now Kai :(
sad times

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 Post subject: Re: I'm out.
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:49 pm 
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Stop being an emo bawbag Kai.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm out.
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:59 pm 
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I must admit the game hasnt cracked up to be what i expected. i play it to progress but dont think i actually "enjoy" it.

I think im just gonna play till GW2 is fully released.

Sad to see you leave K'ai.

can i have your stuffs?!? just kidding.

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Last edited by Triphazard on Fri May 11, 2012 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm out.
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:08 am 
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well im taking it to be what i expected it to be. KoToR 3-10 so im still enjoying it. my 6month sub is gonna roll over when it does and i dont intend on changing that yet. shame to see you leave, hope something grabs your attention.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm out.
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 3:33 am 
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Quixoticish wrote:
Stop being an emo bawbag Kai.


Touche. :D

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